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#171042
As the suggestion is long and the forums are annoying to format, I've used a Google Document to make this suggestion.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fyg ... sp=sharing

I'd like to hear criticisms or suggestions for the idea. I know it's very big for Pandahut, but I think it's time Mayor is reformed.
Who gets the seat if a council member is found guilty and is impeached? The same party or maybe the party with the highest quotient (like a 12th seat)?
User avatar
By Miku
#171043
Without getting too far into this idea, I think it's a good idea to look at the current problems you listed and try to fix them.


Mayors can take out funds for whatever they want, even if it’s bad.
- We can add a public log for when they take funds out and make it much more precise on how much you can take out and put back into.
Mayors have a very limited amount of things they can do that are impactful on roleplay.
- They can set up their own boards, assistants, events, etc. It's all up to THEM.
Mayor is an almost redundant role when RP Admins exist who could just as easily make laws.
- I would disagree, doing this allows mayors to say "I am going to do XXX YY ZZ TO HELP THE COMMUNITY" and then they can do it and effect roleplay.
The voting system for mayor is flawed.
- https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... ge-1238346
- https://www.prri.org/research/american- ... tion-2018/
- https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/polls
- People in America would prefer a popular vote for the President instead of the electoral college, I understand this isn't exactly the electorcal college, but it's pretty close.

The political system is barely a system at all.
- Some things do not need to be complicated, mayor elections always hype things up and can be super interesting. We have always left it up to the mayors to make their own boards, advisiors, etc.

There are other options too, like having a simple 5 man board with our current election. The person who becomes Mayor is one, they can then pick 2 more board members, and the second and third place players could also get on there.
#171045
Without getting too far into this idea, I think it's a good idea to look at the current problems you listed and try to fix them.


Mayors can take out funds for whatever they want, even if it’s bad.
- We can add a public log for when they take funds out and make it much more precise on how much you can take out and put back into.
Mayors have a very limited amount of things they can do that are impactful on roleplay.
- They can set up their own boards, assistants, events, etc. It's all up to THEM.
Mayor is an almost redundant role when RP Admins exist who could just as easily make laws.
- I would disagree, doing this allows mayors to say "I am going to do XXX YY ZZ TO HELP THE COMMUNITY" and then they can do it and effect roleplay.
The voting system for mayor is flawed.
- https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... ge-1238346
- https://www.prri.org/research/american- ... tion-2018/
- https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/polls
- People in America would prefer a popular vote for the President instead of the electoral college, I understand this isn't exactly the electorcal college, but it's pretty close.

The political system is barely a system at all.
- Some things do not need to be complicated, mayor elections always hype things up and can be super interesting. We have always left it up to the mayors to make their own boards, advisiors, etc.

There are other options too, like having a simple 5 man board with our current election. The person who becomes Mayor is one, they can then pick 2 more board members, and the second and third place players could also get on there.
Well, personally I prefer an entire reform but doing stuff in steps/fixing existing problems may be good to start off with. The public log for transferring funds would definitely help. What I think the main problem that needs to be fixed is the voting system, and the articles you linked aren't really what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is actually using a voting system that would have a good result whilst being able to do it via the normal poll function. If mayor was to stay as directly elected, I would prefer a ranked voting system but AFAIK that's probably not going to happen (unless, for example, a special forum page was set up and some code was implemented to perform an election under the rules of instant-runoff voting or another, better system).
User avatar
By Miku
#171046
Without getting too far into this idea, I think it's a good idea to look at the current problems you listed and try to fix them.


Mayors can take out funds for whatever they want, even if it’s bad.
- We can add a public log for when they take funds out and make it much more precise on how much you can take out and put back into.
Mayors have a very limited amount of things they can do that are impactful on roleplay.
- They can set up their own boards, assistants, events, etc. It's all up to THEM.
Mayor is an almost redundant role when RP Admins exist who could just as easily make laws.
- I would disagree, doing this allows mayors to say "I am going to do XXX YY ZZ TO HELP THE COMMUNITY" and then they can do it and effect roleplay.
The voting system for mayor is flawed.
- https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... ge-1238346
- https://www.prri.org/research/american- ... tion-2018/
- https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/polls
- People in America would prefer a popular vote for the President instead of the electoral college, I understand this isn't exactly the electorcal college, but it's pretty close.

The political system is barely a system at all.
- Some things do not need to be complicated, mayor elections always hype things up and can be super interesting. We have always left it up to the mayors to make their own boards, advisiors, etc.

There are other options too, like having a simple 5 man board with our current election. The person who becomes Mayor is one, they can then pick 2 more board members, and the second and third place players could also get on there.
Well, personally I prefer an entire reform but doing stuff in steps/fixing existing problems may be good to start off with. The public log for transferring funds would definitely help. What I think the main problem that needs to be fixed is the voting system, and the articles you linked aren't really what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is actually using a voting system that would have a good result whilst being able to do it via the normal poll function. If mayor was to stay as directly elected, I would prefer a ranked voting system but AFAIK that's probably not going to happen (unless, for example, a special forum page was set up and some code was implemented to perform an election under the rules of instant-runoff voting or another, better system).

Not sure how you can say "those articles you linked aren't really what I'm talking about" when the first point you have in your Google docs is
"Abolish mayoral elections", Statistically it has been simply proven that as least American-wise, people prefer Direct voting the most. They feel directly that their vote counts and that they have power. With Ranked voting systems, they will feel their vote has less power, in America for example, a lot of people can rationalize to themselves that they don't need to vote, because their party will win anyway, and they would get all of the votes in the election anyway.

Personally, I think a true democracy has direct voting for it's highest leader anyway. Sure, you can say "That allows uneducated/random voters" but it makes the most people happy. No one can say that they didn't have some degree of power in it, and the people always get what *Most* of them want.
#171047
Without getting too far into this idea, I think it's a good idea to look at the current problems you listed and try to fix them.


Mayors can take out funds for whatever they want, even if it’s bad.
- We can add a public log for when they take funds out and make it much more precise on how much you can take out and put back into.
Mayors have a very limited amount of things they can do that are impactful on roleplay.
- They can set up their own boards, assistants, events, etc. It's all up to THEM.
Mayor is an almost redundant role when RP Admins exist who could just as easily make laws.
- I would disagree, doing this allows mayors to say "I am going to do XXX YY ZZ TO HELP THE COMMUNITY" and then they can do it and effect roleplay.
The voting system for mayor is flawed.
- https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... ge-1238346
- https://www.prri.org/research/american- ... tion-2018/
- https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/polls
- People in America would prefer a popular vote for the President instead of the electoral college, I understand this isn't exactly the electorcal college, but it's pretty close.

The political system is barely a system at all.
- Some things do not need to be complicated, mayor elections always hype things up and can be super interesting. We have always left it up to the mayors to make their own boards, advisiors, etc.

There are other options too, like having a simple 5 man board with our current election. The person who becomes Mayor is one, they can then pick 2 more board members, and the second and third place players could also get on there.
Well, personally I prefer an entire reform but doing stuff in steps/fixing existing problems may be good to start off with. The public log for transferring funds would definitely help. What I think the main problem that needs to be fixed is the voting system, and the articles you linked aren't really what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is actually using a voting system that would have a good result whilst being able to do it via the normal poll function. If mayor was to stay as directly elected, I would prefer a ranked voting system but AFAIK that's probably not going to happen (unless, for example, a special forum page was set up and some code was implemented to perform an election under the rules of instant-runoff voting or another, better system).

Not sure how you can say "those articles you linked aren't really what I'm talking about" when the first point you have in your Google docs is
"Abolish mayoral elections", Statistically it has been simply proven that as least American-wise, people prefer Direct voting the most. They feel directly that their vote counts and that they have power. With Ranked voting systems, they will feel their vote has less power, in America for example, a lot of people can rationalize to themselves that they don't need to vote, because their party will win anyway, and they would get all of the votes in the election anyway.

Personally, I think a true democracy has direct voting for it's highest leader anyway. Sure, you can say "That allows uneducated/random voters" but it makes the most people happy. No one can say that they didn't have some degree of power in it, and the people always get what *Most* of them want.
Then you need to read what I say after. I advocate for a council election, not a mayoral election. But if the admins prefer direct mayoral elections, then I would say to somehow get a better electoral method instead of the current one.
User avatar
By Miku
#171048
I did read what you had to say after, and it doesn't change anything, you would still be getting rid of Mayoral Elections as we currently know them.

My point was, it's not about Admins preferring direct elections, people themselves do. There's data to prove that as well as just understanding that if you get mayor by the majority vote, then the majority of people will be happy.
#171049
I did read what you had to say after, and it doesn't change anything, you would still be getting rid of Mayoral Elections as we currently know them.

My point was, it's not about Admins preferring direct elections, people themselves do. There's data to prove that as well as just understanding that if you get mayor by the majority vote, then the majority of people will be happy.
But the thing is that mayors can be elected without a majority, eg https://pandahut.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=25055
If we were to take the route of having direct mayoral elections, we should switch from the voting system known as first-past-the-post, which is what PH currently uses to one that is preferential so candidates have to be preferred by at least 50% of the candidates. There's a good video on how it works here and points out the problems of the current system PH uses.
User avatar
By Helena
#171055
I did read what you had to say after, and it doesn't change anything, you would still be getting rid of Mayoral Elections as we currently know them.

My point was, it's not about Admins preferring direct elections, people themselves do. There's data to prove that as well as just understanding that if you get mayor by the majority vote, then the majority of people will be happy.
But the thing is that mayors can be elected without a majority, eg https://pandahut.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=25055
If we were to take the route of having direct mayoral elections, we should switch from the voting system known as first-past-the-post, which is what PH currently uses to one that is preferential so candidates have to be preferred by at least 50% of the candidates. There's a good video on how it works here and points out the problems of the current system PH uses.
the example you display is rather a cherry pick out of all the mayor elections we have seen, on average we see 2-3 people running for mayor on a same term and on average the winner is always winning by great difference.

also i insist this is too much for something like a roleplay server in unturned, listen to yourself going on a tangent about real politics. i strongly consider that a lot of players wont commit to the level of dedication this system you propose needs, they want to keep it simple and straight forward. otherwise it would just kill the role itself as eventually people would get tired of something so... exhaustive?
#171081
Electing the council seems a little odd for me, but a big fat +1. A better system in comparison to the dictator esque voting we have currently.

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